KatieKat

GW Bush uses kids to make abstinence only commercial with homophobic message.

Comments

I really couldn't disagree more.

Abstinence aught to be a part of the godly upbringing that all children recieve, and a message such as this, rooted in Christian morals shouldn't be condemned.

Whatever the morals, the abstinence message was proved to be ineffective in the past, and as human biology has not changed it is still ineffective.

Thats great - however, Christian values should be taught by the PARENTS and the CHURCH, not the government.

The government should be educating people with effective tools to prevent illness and disease.

You forget though, that the government will ultimately answer to God. Even Christians who believe in the separation of church, typically agree the government aught to be ethical and righteous.
No. The government does not answer to God. There will be no divine judgment on each government by God. Our government does not act in the name or the interest of the Christian God either.

You are right - the govenment SHOULD act ethically. Ethics and religions are two separate and distinct issues. Personally - I find the advertisement to be unethical in its manipulation of message.
Sorry but God doesn't vote. People do. As such for better or worse the government answers to the people, not to God.

If abstinence only programs were proven more effective than sexual education then it could be argued that the government has an obligation to push abstinence programs. Sadly studies have failed to show any effectiveness in the abstinence only approach. The biggest concern is that some abstinence programs give blatantly false information about contraception and abortion, limiting the person's ability to make informed choices in adulthood. Only time will tell the damage caused to this generation of children being mislead that a moral message equals medical fact. Abstinence education certainly has a part in sexual education, but it should not be at the expense of other vital information. From a medical point of view that would be unethical.

Has this ad actually been released on American TV? Nation-wide?

My brain boggles. Yet again. Even though I am sure the current Australian government would probably love to show an ad like this on our screens, there would be far too much outrage at its backwards message to try.

The ad is actually being shown on TV and promoted seriously????

Maybe its me but the commercial imo is about parents interaction with their children on the topic of sex. Its not about what should be taught in schools or anywhere else. A parent has every right and should talk to their children about abstinence. Public schools already teach a comprehensive program of sex education, so what is wrong with the commercial encouraging parents to do what most parents already do, talk to their children about waiting? The only problem with the commercial that i see is that it used one single politically incorrect term and i doubt that was intentionally done to exclude certain people.

If all parents were responsible and talked to their kids the government wouldnt need to have commercials like that, but some parents do not ever talk to their kids about sex or they need a little nudge by someone else to take on the topic.

1. The parents that don't talk to their kids about sex are embarrassed to do so. They are embarrassed to do so because sex is taboo in our society. These people need to do more than tell them to wait. A responsible parent should tell them to wait but they should also tell them what they need to do to protect themselves if they do have sex. Those that are already too embarrassed to talk about sex aren't going to do it because of that advertisement. PLUS, the few that it does encourage to talk about sex will actually HARM their child with an abstinence only message.

2. The homophobic message is there deliberately. That message was crafted by people that understand how to use words subtley. They knew EXACTLY what they were saying when they did it. The homophobia of the Bush administration is present in everything they do. Its there intentionally and they like to promote their anti-gay message at every turn.

1. You have no way of knowing whether that commercial will inspire parents who are uncomfortable talking about sex to talk to their children about it.

the few that it does encourage to talk about sex will actually HARM their child with an abstinence only message.
The commercial doesnt say talk to them about abstinence ONLY. It says talk to them about abstinence which most parents already do and should do. We parents want our kids to wait, straight and gay parents alike wish our teens would wait, our reasons may differ on why we want them to wait but i doubt seriously you will hear one single parent say they dont want their child to abstain from sex until later in life. (unfortunately we parents seldom get that wish answered) I may agree with you that parents should teach all aspects of sex education, but thats my and your opinion and we dont have the right to tell other parents what they should be teaching their children when it comes to moral and social issues like sex.

As for parents that are embarrassed, there is still the public school back up of sex ed which for the most part teaches every area you mentioned, although i think a parents nuts not to keep tabs on what a school is teaching their kids especially on issues like sex.

As for the homophobe message, its all in how you view it. I see it as politically incorrect but to me the message is about life mates/life partners and marriage was used because that is the term used by the majority and its not worth making an issue of it.

I think the most dangerous thing about the ad itself is that it presents such an either/or message. In Australia the abstinence side of sex-ed programs do not tell kids that they have to wait until they're married to have sex (and no-one would dream of ordering parents that they have to tell their kids that they have to wait until marriage like this ad does - which is what I find most offensive). They tell them to wait until they are ready. They go into how to tell if you are ready, how to tell if you are being pressured and the potential consequences of sex. That way all sorts of families - married, de-facto,same-sex and separated - can still reasonably talk about teen abstinence without looking like hypocritical idiots. Saying that there is an expectation is to wait until marriage is pretty unreasonable in today's society (in Australia anyway) except for the strictest of religious followers. Even in the USA statistics show that most people engage in pre-marital sex, so isn't it presenting an unrealistic expectation for teens to remain virgins if the rest of society can't be bothered?

The message being told is that you wait until marriage OR you're a great big slut who is disappointing your parents. The fact that 95% of other people have been great big sluts by the same criteria is immaterial - it's you who is the failure. Provided a person is in a loving, solid relationship who is the government to say that they should not be sleeping together? And what are teens going to think when they see an ad like this that contrasts with what the adults around them do? I know I'd soon learn to ignore government 'health' messages and to think that all health ads thrive on hypocrisy. Not the best basis for future sexual health knowledge.
Sorry, just needed to correct a sentence in there. At the end of the first (enormous) paragraph I meant to say "...isn't it presenting an unrealistic expectation for teens to remain virgins until marriage if the rest of society can't be bothered?"

Forgot the most crucial criticism of the ad in that statement. Sorry about that!
Doubleplus Ungood. Sexcrime.

Ja!
I guess it's a Christian belief EvilWoman.
I don't know what you believe but:

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established."

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.(3-4)


etc.
Sorry, those were from Romans 13.
I can agree with you about the ad saying specifically wait until marriage, but i still disagree its unrealistic to expect teens to wait because some teens do wait. Nearly every child physiologist in this country will tell you that kids rise to meet reasonable expectations, that kids need boundries, if you expect nothing from them, they give you exactly what you expect. I dont see anything wrong with wanting a child to wait as long as you dont freak out or condemn them if they dont. Also its usually other teens who make teens feel like they are sluts, not their parents.

Sorry, but i just think this whole issue has been blown out of proportion. The ad is just an ad, most parents will pay it little attention because they are already doing what the ad says at least as far as asking their children to wait for either one reason or another. Then again maybe its because i have two teen daughters of my own, so my view on this is based on dealing with this issue with my own daughters.

Oh I do agree that paents should tell their kids to wait until they are old enough - emotionally and mentally - to deal with the full range of issues that will arise from sex.

My problem is the Bush "Absitinence Only" plan. That is where you run into problems because if you ar just teaching abstinence or just telling kids to "wait" without any other instruction, you are hurting you kids. Abstinence lessons should be coupled with a comprehensive sex education.

Sorry, another long comment coming up!

Adam, you're right that we have completely different beliefs on this topic. The problem is that those politicians are supposed to represent us atheists just as much as the Christians, Jews and Muslims. That's why both our countries run call themselves democracies instead of theocracies. If politicians stand on a platform that they will only listen to God and not the people then fine, at least the voters know what they're getting and can vote accordingly. It's when the politicians want a foot in both camps that I object; campaigning that they will legislate according to all their constituents (religious and otherwise) and then making all their decisions based only on their religious beliefs.

There was actually a big controversy in Australia about a year ago when Cardinal Pell told all Catholic MPs they had to follow the directions of the Catholic Church in their parliamentary decisions and not personal conscience or they shouldn't take communion. The people most offended were the Catholic MPs who knew that they represented their electorate, not the Vatican, and that such a statement would hurt them significantly come the next election. Most distanced themselves from Pell's comments knowing that no-one would vote for them if they knew that they were just mouthpieces for the Church.

Robin, I agree that teens should be set reasonable expectations. I guess we just differ in our opinions of what is reasonable. Unfortunately the ad doesn't set out that parents shouldn't freak out if their kids fail to live up to their expectations. I suppose if they mentioned that it would count as a Plan B where the parents needed to talk to their children about protection from STDs and birth control - all the things that abstinence only programs condemn. All I can say is that as someone who is quite happy living in a de-facto relationship and sees nothing immoral in it I would find it quite insulting for some government funding program to tell me I have to instruct my children to 'wait until marriage' when I personally don't believe in marriage.

You may well be right that it's been blown out of proportion. I'm probably offended because I'm looking at it from a completely different cultural viewpoint than you are. And as Falcon.kmc said if the same ad were shown in Australia there would be absolute outrage from most of the community.
At least we agree on something. :) Im not to keen on the abstinence only program either. I believe its reasonable to expect teens to wait, but unrealistic to assume because you want them to wait they will.

I dont really think its just Bush's abstinence only program, the program was around long before Bush entered office, it just gained more attention since he has been in office. In part that may be because as a nation in some areas STDs are nearly in epidemic proportions in the teen population and teen pregnancy is at a all time high. Neither program really seems to be working, the numbers just keep growing. The government can only do so much, i believe it has to start at home, parents need to get over the embarrassment, get the facts, and talk to their kids, not talk at them.

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